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Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
02-20-2015, 11:09 PM
Post: #1
Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
Hello,
Here is the thread where we can discuss the Longboat club project. Use it to show things you discovered or ask questions between our monthly meetings.

Cheers,
Chuck

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
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02-20-2015, 11:15 PM
Post: #2
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
Larry found sent a email to Neil and me about the Longboat. Thought some of this might be useful to others so here are excerpts from those emails.....

*************** Initial Email From Larry ****************
...
I started the longboat yesterday and immediately ran into a "head scratcher." In the kit there are two keel pieces and two stem pieces. First intuition would be to glue the keel pieces and the stem pieces together to make the keel 3/16 " thick. Yet the plans do not seem to bear this out in the end views, as it shows the keel to be 3/32". I am willing to go with the 3/32" keel and just not use the extra keel and stem piece. But why would there be extra pieces?

I have checked the MSW website discussions of Chuck Passaro and Bob Filipowski, and there is no mention of this "head scratcher." It looks like they just used one keel piece and one stem piece, but I cannot tell for sure. There is no mention in the Instructions to glue the two sets of pieces together to form the keel.

This is a critical decision to make at this juncture. Do you know if there are extra pieces for the keel and stem? It does not seem to me that there should be.

Thanks,

Larry

P.S. There is also no mention in the Instructions to lightly sand the burn marks off the backsides of the laser cut parts sheets. I have lightly sanded the backside of mine, because it does no damage to the parts, and I do not want to have to do it after the the parts are glued up. By the way, I also lightly sanded off the burn marks on the "top" of the false keel. One more thing (for now), the Instructions say that you may want to stain the parts before they are glued up. There is no suggestion of what kind of tint or type of stain to use. When I saw Chuck at the NRG meeting in St. Louis he showed me his version of what he called a "boxwood stain" which is a mixture of 20% Minwax "Golden Oak" and 80% Minwax "Natural". I have used this formulation on the false keel and, so far, it looks terrific.

******************** Reply from Neil ****************
...
Sounds as if they threw in an extra keel and stem. On the Pinnace I have some extra of the parts that are fragile, and I have found that with the Syren kit, as well.

Great idea to sand off the laser burns while the parts are in the laser sheets.

I use Chuck P’s boxwood stain , as well. I agree it gives a nice look to the wood.
...

*************** Reply from Chuck********************
...
My $0.02 worth. The plans, instruction, and parts list are consistent, only one stem and keel his required. The second is a duplicate. Before cutting my wood for the bulkheads I measured the width of the slots on both the keel and the bulkheads to make sure I was milling wood to the proper thickness. These measurements indicate that the keel is 3/32”. Double up at your own risk – particularly if you want to sand!. 
...

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
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03-07-2015, 10:45 AM
Post: #3
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
(02-20-2015 11:15 PM)chuckl Wrote:  Larry found sent a email to Neil and me about the Longboat. Thought some of this might be useful to others so here are excerpts from those emails.....

*************** Initial Email From Larry ****************
...
I started the longboat yesterday and immediately ran into a "head scratcher." In the kit there are two keel pieces and two stem pieces. First intuition would be to glue the keel pieces and the stem pieces together to make the keel 3/16 " thick. Yet the plans do not seem to bear this out in the end views, as it shows the keel to be 3/32". I am willing to go with the 3/32" keel and just not use the extra keel and stem piece. But why would there be extra pieces?

I have checked the MSW website discussions of Chuck Passaro and Bob Filipowski, and there is no mention of this "head scratcher." It looks like they just used one keel piece and one stem piece, but I cannot tell for sure. There is no mention in the Instructions to glue the two sets of pieces together to form the keel.

This is a critical decision to make at this juncture. Do you know if there are extra pieces for the keel and stem? It does not seem to me that there should be.

Thanks,

Larry

P.S. There is also no mention in the Instructions to lightly sand the burn marks off the backsides of the laser cut parts sheets. I have lightly sanded the backside of mine, because it does no damage to the parts, and I do not want to have to do it after the the parts are glued up. By the way, I also lightly sanded off the burn marks on the "top" of the false keel. One more thing (for now), the Instructions say that you may want to stain the parts before they are glued up. There is no suggestion of what kind of tint or type of stain to use. When I saw Chuck at the NRG meeting in St. Louis he showed me his version of what he called a "boxwood stain" which is a mixture of 20% Minwax "Golden Oak" and 80% Minwax "Natural". I have used this formulation on the false keel and, so far, it looks terrific.

******************** Reply from Neil ****************
...
Sounds as if they threw in an extra keel and stem. On the Pinnace I have some extra of the parts that are fragile, and I have found that with the Syren kit, as well.

Great idea to sand off the laser burns while the parts are in the laser sheets.

I use Chuck P’s boxwood stain , as well. I agree it gives a nice look to the wood.
...

*************** Reply from Chuck********************
...
My $0.02 worth. The plans, instruction, and parts list are consistent, only one stem and keel his required. The second is a duplicate. Before cutting my wood for the bulkheads I measured the width of the slots on both the keel and the bulkheads to make sure I was milling wood to the proper thickness. These measurements indicate that the keel is 3/32”. Double up at your own risk – particularly if you want to sand!. 
...
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03-08-2015, 07:58 AM
Post: #4
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
                Here are a few pictures of my version of the longboat, actually this is the Pinnace. I have the bulkheads mounted, but I need to play with it a little to make sure they are square to the false keel.

Not sure this post will work. If not, I'll try again, one day.

Neil
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03-09-2015, 09:35 AM
Post: #5
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
Looks great Neil. I did have to tilt my head to the side for a few of the pictures Big Grin but that really wasn't a big deal.

Are you going to bring the Pinnace to the meeting? Sure hope so....

Cheers,
Chuck - Alpharetta, GA

Dry dock: Patrick Henry POF kit, HMS Elephant, 18th Century Longboat
Sailing the Ocean Blue: Flying Cloud, Bluenose
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03-09-2015, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2015 10:19 AM by larryb.)
Post: #6
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
I can understand why many folks have started this kit, and then quit. There is lots of room to make mistakes, and I made a lot of them. This is a fragile and delicate kit in the early construction phases.

I went to the Model Ship World website and found there are several builds of this particular kit ongoing. I decided to follow the techniques of Bob F since they appeared to be most helpful -- to me.

One of the first things I did was to use white glue (Elmer's Glue All in my case) as Bob has done. This was a very good thing! I found myself having to unglue several bulkheads that were either not glued in completely into the bottom of the corresponding notch (all the way down to the bearding line in most cases), or not aligned correctly horizontal, or not aligned correctly vertical, or the topmost ends of the bulkheads were not in a parallel plane with the waterline. I am glad I did not use CA!
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03-10-2015, 12:48 AM
Post: #7
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
(03-09-2015 09:35 AM)chuckl Wrote:  Looks great Neil. I did have to tilt my head to the side for a few of the pictures Big Grin but that really wasn't a big deal.

Are you going to bring the Pinnace to the meeting? Sure hope so....

Thanks, Chuck. Trying to figure out how to turn picture and where. Looked okay in my album.

Yes, I'll bring the Pinnace.
Neil
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03-10-2015, 02:19 AM
Post: #8
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
(03-09-2015 10:13 AM)larryb Wrote:  I can understand why many folks have started this kit, and then quit. There is lots of room to make mistakes, and I made a lot of them. This is a fragile and delicate kit in the early construction phases.

I went to the Model Ship World website and found there are several builds of this particular kit ongoing. I decided to follow the techniques of Bob F since they appeared to be most helpful -- to me.

One of the first things I did was to use white glue (Elmer's Glue All in my case) as Bob has done. This was a very good thing! I found myself having to unglue several bulkheads that were either not glued in completely into the bottom of the corresponding notch (all the way down to the bearding line in most cases), or not aligned correctly horizontal, or not aligned correctly vertical, or the topmost ends of the bulkheads were not in a parallel plane with the waterline. I am glad I did not use CA!

Here is a short version of a reply I've been trying to post for 30 minutes. Squaring the frames has been a problem for me, as well. I finally added three batons to the top of the bulkheads, marked for each position. Started with center baton and duplicated for two outside batons. I have inserted a picture below. Hopefully this will keep things square. I definitely hate this part of the build.
Neil
   
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03-10-2015, 03:59 AM
Post: #9
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
Great work, Neil. Keeping all the bulkheads square, horizontal, vertical, and tops in the same plane is a big challenge. I took a long look at your photo in the magnified mode. You might want to check out the bulkhead #4 up from the bottom. It appears (in the photo) it may be just a tad off a bit, i.e., leaning slightly too far to the starboard side. (The same thing happened to me! I did not discover it until I started sanding/fairing the bulkheads.) Otherwise, it might leave a bulge on the starboard side and a sunken spot on the port side. (If you used Elmer's, it should be an easy fix.)
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03-10-2015, 09:47 AM
Post: #10
RE: Club Build of the 18th Century Longboat
Thanks, Larry. Not sure which one you mean as my picture shows horizontal. Would you please give me a count to the right or left of the bulkhead that looks all white on top, or you can show me on Saturday. BTW you shouldn't have looked so closelySmile
Neil
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